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Are there moral objections to a life motivated purely by money? How to sway a person from this lifestyle?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Name for this kind of justiceWould Kant choose to sacrifice one life to save another?Understanding of PrideIn Kant's ethics, is it allowed to be richer than other people?How objective can morality be?Is there a name for this meta-moral philosophy?Objections to moral nihilism based on argument from evolution?How can one reconcile moral objection to wage slavery with the societial need for money?ethics for discriminatedHow should I live when there are so many moral philosophies?
Let’s say there’s a person, Z. Z has decided that his goal in life is to get as much money as possible, and at the end, to upload his consciousness into a robot/computer to live forever in his fortunes.
Hence, he eschews all romantic relationships and all thoughts of having a family or children, as he considers them a waste of time. He also doesn’t care about how other people view him (to the extent that they don’t kill him out of hatred, so no huge obvious scandals or anything), so he won’t donate to charity or spend all his money on “frivolous luxuries” like cars, mansions or fashion, or try to become admired, loved, or famous (unless of course it gets him more money)
The only thing that drives him is watching his bank account number going up. If making friends with finance people will make his wealth grow faster, he will make friends with finance people. If going into politics will make him wealthier, he will do so. If starting a reality TV show about his life will increase his wealth, he will start a reality TV show. If marginalizing some group will make him money, he will—- but however, if marginalizing that group of people will cause his business to fail more than it gains or something (at least so far as he can predict), he will not do it. And etcetera.
- Are there any moral/philosophical objections to this kind of life? Any social, practical, economic, etc. concerns?
- More importantly: Are there reasons/Is it right to convince Person Z to not follow this lifestyle? I don’t think that the Aristotle writings would change Z’s mind.
- Is there any degree of wealth where the person who is wealthy is inevitably harmed by his riches? If no, does that mean that there is no way to convince a rich person to give money away?
Sorry if I worded it badly, I can elaborate on whatever you need.
edit: This is not based off of Trump. Person Z does not care about power or popularity or appreciation from a fanbase or pornstars, nor does he care about spending any of his money beyond necessities and small luxuries and further money making schemes; he just wants to live forever with as much money as possible
ethics
New contributor
|
show 2 more comments
Let’s say there’s a person, Z. Z has decided that his goal in life is to get as much money as possible, and at the end, to upload his consciousness into a robot/computer to live forever in his fortunes.
Hence, he eschews all romantic relationships and all thoughts of having a family or children, as he considers them a waste of time. He also doesn’t care about how other people view him (to the extent that they don’t kill him out of hatred, so no huge obvious scandals or anything), so he won’t donate to charity or spend all his money on “frivolous luxuries” like cars, mansions or fashion, or try to become admired, loved, or famous (unless of course it gets him more money)
The only thing that drives him is watching his bank account number going up. If making friends with finance people will make his wealth grow faster, he will make friends with finance people. If going into politics will make him wealthier, he will do so. If starting a reality TV show about his life will increase his wealth, he will start a reality TV show. If marginalizing some group will make him money, he will—- but however, if marginalizing that group of people will cause his business to fail more than it gains or something (at least so far as he can predict), he will not do it. And etcetera.
- Are there any moral/philosophical objections to this kind of life? Any social, practical, economic, etc. concerns?
- More importantly: Are there reasons/Is it right to convince Person Z to not follow this lifestyle? I don’t think that the Aristotle writings would change Z’s mind.
- Is there any degree of wealth where the person who is wealthy is inevitably harmed by his riches? If no, does that mean that there is no way to convince a rich person to give money away?
Sorry if I worded it badly, I can elaborate on whatever you need.
edit: This is not based off of Trump. Person Z does not care about power or popularity or appreciation from a fanbase or pornstars, nor does he care about spending any of his money beyond necessities and small luxuries and further money making schemes; he just wants to live forever with as much money as possible
ethics
New contributor
1
Seems like a very impoverished life. But if this is supposed to be modeled on Trump, it is off. People who are said to "only care about money" actually care about something else that the money brings: luxury, self-indulgence, ego-stroking, lack of material concerns, power, popularity, etc. There are of course objections from the point of view of standard moral systems with typical virtues, or values, or rules, but that is obvious, so it is a little unclear what you are looking for.
– Conifold
4 hours ago
Everyone is running their own race. I see no eason why devoting oneself to the accumulation of wealth would be any different from devoting oneself to any other thing. Though personally.devotion to a single purpose seems wasteful.
– Richard
4 hours ago
Your second question is off-topic here. We cannot give you personal advice how to convince someone to pursue a certain lifestyle
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran No sorry, the question is to ask for more reasons to than just the Aristotle one, and whether it philosophically right to convince someone that their lifestyle is “unethical”, both of which are philosophy questions
– user39404
3 hours ago
Regardless of motives, the malignant pursuit of wealth consumes far too much in natural resources, depriving others of shelter, food, water, clean air and soil, etc. It drives inflation, because of the shortage of resources which have been wasted or hoarded by the wealthy. It promotes pollution and destroys the very structure of the planet because of all the mining, transportation, technology, commerce, and industry involved in profiteering. It promotes human trafficking for cheap labor. It's an offense against both God (or Nature) and the human species. It has no redeeming qualities.
– Bread
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Let’s say there’s a person, Z. Z has decided that his goal in life is to get as much money as possible, and at the end, to upload his consciousness into a robot/computer to live forever in his fortunes.
Hence, he eschews all romantic relationships and all thoughts of having a family or children, as he considers them a waste of time. He also doesn’t care about how other people view him (to the extent that they don’t kill him out of hatred, so no huge obvious scandals or anything), so he won’t donate to charity or spend all his money on “frivolous luxuries” like cars, mansions or fashion, or try to become admired, loved, or famous (unless of course it gets him more money)
The only thing that drives him is watching his bank account number going up. If making friends with finance people will make his wealth grow faster, he will make friends with finance people. If going into politics will make him wealthier, he will do so. If starting a reality TV show about his life will increase his wealth, he will start a reality TV show. If marginalizing some group will make him money, he will—- but however, if marginalizing that group of people will cause his business to fail more than it gains or something (at least so far as he can predict), he will not do it. And etcetera.
- Are there any moral/philosophical objections to this kind of life? Any social, practical, economic, etc. concerns?
- More importantly: Are there reasons/Is it right to convince Person Z to not follow this lifestyle? I don’t think that the Aristotle writings would change Z’s mind.
- Is there any degree of wealth where the person who is wealthy is inevitably harmed by his riches? If no, does that mean that there is no way to convince a rich person to give money away?
Sorry if I worded it badly, I can elaborate on whatever you need.
edit: This is not based off of Trump. Person Z does not care about power or popularity or appreciation from a fanbase or pornstars, nor does he care about spending any of his money beyond necessities and small luxuries and further money making schemes; he just wants to live forever with as much money as possible
ethics
New contributor
Let’s say there’s a person, Z. Z has decided that his goal in life is to get as much money as possible, and at the end, to upload his consciousness into a robot/computer to live forever in his fortunes.
Hence, he eschews all romantic relationships and all thoughts of having a family or children, as he considers them a waste of time. He also doesn’t care about how other people view him (to the extent that they don’t kill him out of hatred, so no huge obvious scandals or anything), so he won’t donate to charity or spend all his money on “frivolous luxuries” like cars, mansions or fashion, or try to become admired, loved, or famous (unless of course it gets him more money)
The only thing that drives him is watching his bank account number going up. If making friends with finance people will make his wealth grow faster, he will make friends with finance people. If going into politics will make him wealthier, he will do so. If starting a reality TV show about his life will increase his wealth, he will start a reality TV show. If marginalizing some group will make him money, he will—- but however, if marginalizing that group of people will cause his business to fail more than it gains or something (at least so far as he can predict), he will not do it. And etcetera.
- Are there any moral/philosophical objections to this kind of life? Any social, practical, economic, etc. concerns?
- More importantly: Are there reasons/Is it right to convince Person Z to not follow this lifestyle? I don’t think that the Aristotle writings would change Z’s mind.
- Is there any degree of wealth where the person who is wealthy is inevitably harmed by his riches? If no, does that mean that there is no way to convince a rich person to give money away?
Sorry if I worded it badly, I can elaborate on whatever you need.
edit: This is not based off of Trump. Person Z does not care about power or popularity or appreciation from a fanbase or pornstars, nor does he care about spending any of his money beyond necessities and small luxuries and further money making schemes; he just wants to live forever with as much money as possible
ethics
ethics
New contributor
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
user39404
New contributor
asked 5 hours ago
user39404user39404
92
92
New contributor
New contributor
1
Seems like a very impoverished life. But if this is supposed to be modeled on Trump, it is off. People who are said to "only care about money" actually care about something else that the money brings: luxury, self-indulgence, ego-stroking, lack of material concerns, power, popularity, etc. There are of course objections from the point of view of standard moral systems with typical virtues, or values, or rules, but that is obvious, so it is a little unclear what you are looking for.
– Conifold
4 hours ago
Everyone is running their own race. I see no eason why devoting oneself to the accumulation of wealth would be any different from devoting oneself to any other thing. Though personally.devotion to a single purpose seems wasteful.
– Richard
4 hours ago
Your second question is off-topic here. We cannot give you personal advice how to convince someone to pursue a certain lifestyle
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran No sorry, the question is to ask for more reasons to than just the Aristotle one, and whether it philosophically right to convince someone that their lifestyle is “unethical”, both of which are philosophy questions
– user39404
3 hours ago
Regardless of motives, the malignant pursuit of wealth consumes far too much in natural resources, depriving others of shelter, food, water, clean air and soil, etc. It drives inflation, because of the shortage of resources which have been wasted or hoarded by the wealthy. It promotes pollution and destroys the very structure of the planet because of all the mining, transportation, technology, commerce, and industry involved in profiteering. It promotes human trafficking for cheap labor. It's an offense against both God (or Nature) and the human species. It has no redeeming qualities.
– Bread
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
Seems like a very impoverished life. But if this is supposed to be modeled on Trump, it is off. People who are said to "only care about money" actually care about something else that the money brings: luxury, self-indulgence, ego-stroking, lack of material concerns, power, popularity, etc. There are of course objections from the point of view of standard moral systems with typical virtues, or values, or rules, but that is obvious, so it is a little unclear what you are looking for.
– Conifold
4 hours ago
Everyone is running their own race. I see no eason why devoting oneself to the accumulation of wealth would be any different from devoting oneself to any other thing. Though personally.devotion to a single purpose seems wasteful.
– Richard
4 hours ago
Your second question is off-topic here. We cannot give you personal advice how to convince someone to pursue a certain lifestyle
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran No sorry, the question is to ask for more reasons to than just the Aristotle one, and whether it philosophically right to convince someone that their lifestyle is “unethical”, both of which are philosophy questions
– user39404
3 hours ago
Regardless of motives, the malignant pursuit of wealth consumes far too much in natural resources, depriving others of shelter, food, water, clean air and soil, etc. It drives inflation, because of the shortage of resources which have been wasted or hoarded by the wealthy. It promotes pollution and destroys the very structure of the planet because of all the mining, transportation, technology, commerce, and industry involved in profiteering. It promotes human trafficking for cheap labor. It's an offense against both God (or Nature) and the human species. It has no redeeming qualities.
– Bread
2 hours ago
1
1
Seems like a very impoverished life. But if this is supposed to be modeled on Trump, it is off. People who are said to "only care about money" actually care about something else that the money brings: luxury, self-indulgence, ego-stroking, lack of material concerns, power, popularity, etc. There are of course objections from the point of view of standard moral systems with typical virtues, or values, or rules, but that is obvious, so it is a little unclear what you are looking for.
– Conifold
4 hours ago
Seems like a very impoverished life. But if this is supposed to be modeled on Trump, it is off. People who are said to "only care about money" actually care about something else that the money brings: luxury, self-indulgence, ego-stroking, lack of material concerns, power, popularity, etc. There are of course objections from the point of view of standard moral systems with typical virtues, or values, or rules, but that is obvious, so it is a little unclear what you are looking for.
– Conifold
4 hours ago
Everyone is running their own race. I see no eason why devoting oneself to the accumulation of wealth would be any different from devoting oneself to any other thing. Though personally.devotion to a single purpose seems wasteful.
– Richard
4 hours ago
Everyone is running their own race. I see no eason why devoting oneself to the accumulation of wealth would be any different from devoting oneself to any other thing. Though personally.devotion to a single purpose seems wasteful.
– Richard
4 hours ago
Your second question is off-topic here. We cannot give you personal advice how to convince someone to pursue a certain lifestyle
– Eliran
3 hours ago
Your second question is off-topic here. We cannot give you personal advice how to convince someone to pursue a certain lifestyle
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran No sorry, the question is to ask for more reasons to than just the Aristotle one, and whether it philosophically right to convince someone that their lifestyle is “unethical”, both of which are philosophy questions
– user39404
3 hours ago
@Eliran No sorry, the question is to ask for more reasons to than just the Aristotle one, and whether it philosophically right to convince someone that their lifestyle is “unethical”, both of which are philosophy questions
– user39404
3 hours ago
Regardless of motives, the malignant pursuit of wealth consumes far too much in natural resources, depriving others of shelter, food, water, clean air and soil, etc. It drives inflation, because of the shortage of resources which have been wasted or hoarded by the wealthy. It promotes pollution and destroys the very structure of the planet because of all the mining, transportation, technology, commerce, and industry involved in profiteering. It promotes human trafficking for cheap labor. It's an offense against both God (or Nature) and the human species. It has no redeeming qualities.
– Bread
2 hours ago
Regardless of motives, the malignant pursuit of wealth consumes far too much in natural resources, depriving others of shelter, food, water, clean air and soil, etc. It drives inflation, because of the shortage of resources which have been wasted or hoarded by the wealthy. It promotes pollution and destroys the very structure of the planet because of all the mining, transportation, technology, commerce, and industry involved in profiteering. It promotes human trafficking for cheap labor. It's an offense against both God (or Nature) and the human species. It has no redeeming qualities.
– Bread
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
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Yes (well assuming you're using "moral" in any of the normal senses).
Aristotle objected to this in Book I of the Nicomachean Ethics.
In chapter 5, Aristotle suggests there are three candidates for the "good life":
- Pleasure
- Honor
- Virtue
He then as an aside says the following:
The life of money-making is one undertaken under compulsion, and wealth is evidently not the good we are seeking; for it is merely useful and for the sake of something else. And so one might rather take the aforenamed objects to be ends; for they are loved for themselves. But it is evident that not even these are ends; yet many arguments have been thrown away in support of them. Let us leave this subject, then (Nicomachean Ethics BK I.5)
At least on Aristotle's read, it makes no sense to make money the goal, because money is a tool used to acquire other things. In which case, money is not the goal -- it is the tool one sees as necessary to whatever one thinks the goal is. (to be more precise, money can only be an intermediate and not a final end, because it cannot logically be pursued for the sake of itself)
Stated another way, a logical (and perhaps moral) objection is that the pursuit of money for money's sake is an act of sheer idiocy. Money only has value in exchange for something.
- If the goal is to buy things, then it may be that money is actually being accumulated for pleasure.
- If the goal is to receive honor because you have a lot of money, then that's the goal (a billionaire's life is not materially altered by adding another billion, but the fame of having a growing fortune could be someone's end).
- If the goal is to have what is necessary for virtue (and enough things to live a life of relative ease are necessary for Aristotle's picture) then that's the real goal.
In an interesting way, Aristotle captures the later objections that could be raised by utilitarians -- since they would see pleasure ("happiness") as the goal.
i wasn't sure this question was broad enough, but it made me laugh, so thanks
– another_name
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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Yes (well assuming you're using "moral" in any of the normal senses).
Aristotle objected to this in Book I of the Nicomachean Ethics.
In chapter 5, Aristotle suggests there are three candidates for the "good life":
- Pleasure
- Honor
- Virtue
He then as an aside says the following:
The life of money-making is one undertaken under compulsion, and wealth is evidently not the good we are seeking; for it is merely useful and for the sake of something else. And so one might rather take the aforenamed objects to be ends; for they are loved for themselves. But it is evident that not even these are ends; yet many arguments have been thrown away in support of them. Let us leave this subject, then (Nicomachean Ethics BK I.5)
At least on Aristotle's read, it makes no sense to make money the goal, because money is a tool used to acquire other things. In which case, money is not the goal -- it is the tool one sees as necessary to whatever one thinks the goal is. (to be more precise, money can only be an intermediate and not a final end, because it cannot logically be pursued for the sake of itself)
Stated another way, a logical (and perhaps moral) objection is that the pursuit of money for money's sake is an act of sheer idiocy. Money only has value in exchange for something.
- If the goal is to buy things, then it may be that money is actually being accumulated for pleasure.
- If the goal is to receive honor because you have a lot of money, then that's the goal (a billionaire's life is not materially altered by adding another billion, but the fame of having a growing fortune could be someone's end).
- If the goal is to have what is necessary for virtue (and enough things to live a life of relative ease are necessary for Aristotle's picture) then that's the real goal.
In an interesting way, Aristotle captures the later objections that could be raised by utilitarians -- since they would see pleasure ("happiness") as the goal.
i wasn't sure this question was broad enough, but it made me laugh, so thanks
– another_name
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Yes (well assuming you're using "moral" in any of the normal senses).
Aristotle objected to this in Book I of the Nicomachean Ethics.
In chapter 5, Aristotle suggests there are three candidates for the "good life":
- Pleasure
- Honor
- Virtue
He then as an aside says the following:
The life of money-making is one undertaken under compulsion, and wealth is evidently not the good we are seeking; for it is merely useful and for the sake of something else. And so one might rather take the aforenamed objects to be ends; for they are loved for themselves. But it is evident that not even these are ends; yet many arguments have been thrown away in support of them. Let us leave this subject, then (Nicomachean Ethics BK I.5)
At least on Aristotle's read, it makes no sense to make money the goal, because money is a tool used to acquire other things. In which case, money is not the goal -- it is the tool one sees as necessary to whatever one thinks the goal is. (to be more precise, money can only be an intermediate and not a final end, because it cannot logically be pursued for the sake of itself)
Stated another way, a logical (and perhaps moral) objection is that the pursuit of money for money's sake is an act of sheer idiocy. Money only has value in exchange for something.
- If the goal is to buy things, then it may be that money is actually being accumulated for pleasure.
- If the goal is to receive honor because you have a lot of money, then that's the goal (a billionaire's life is not materially altered by adding another billion, but the fame of having a growing fortune could be someone's end).
- If the goal is to have what is necessary for virtue (and enough things to live a life of relative ease are necessary for Aristotle's picture) then that's the real goal.
In an interesting way, Aristotle captures the later objections that could be raised by utilitarians -- since they would see pleasure ("happiness") as the goal.
i wasn't sure this question was broad enough, but it made me laugh, so thanks
– another_name
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Yes (well assuming you're using "moral" in any of the normal senses).
Aristotle objected to this in Book I of the Nicomachean Ethics.
In chapter 5, Aristotle suggests there are three candidates for the "good life":
- Pleasure
- Honor
- Virtue
He then as an aside says the following:
The life of money-making is one undertaken under compulsion, and wealth is evidently not the good we are seeking; for it is merely useful and for the sake of something else. And so one might rather take the aforenamed objects to be ends; for they are loved for themselves. But it is evident that not even these are ends; yet many arguments have been thrown away in support of them. Let us leave this subject, then (Nicomachean Ethics BK I.5)
At least on Aristotle's read, it makes no sense to make money the goal, because money is a tool used to acquire other things. In which case, money is not the goal -- it is the tool one sees as necessary to whatever one thinks the goal is. (to be more precise, money can only be an intermediate and not a final end, because it cannot logically be pursued for the sake of itself)
Stated another way, a logical (and perhaps moral) objection is that the pursuit of money for money's sake is an act of sheer idiocy. Money only has value in exchange for something.
- If the goal is to buy things, then it may be that money is actually being accumulated for pleasure.
- If the goal is to receive honor because you have a lot of money, then that's the goal (a billionaire's life is not materially altered by adding another billion, but the fame of having a growing fortune could be someone's end).
- If the goal is to have what is necessary for virtue (and enough things to live a life of relative ease are necessary for Aristotle's picture) then that's the real goal.
In an interesting way, Aristotle captures the later objections that could be raised by utilitarians -- since they would see pleasure ("happiness") as the goal.
Yes (well assuming you're using "moral" in any of the normal senses).
Aristotle objected to this in Book I of the Nicomachean Ethics.
In chapter 5, Aristotle suggests there are three candidates for the "good life":
- Pleasure
- Honor
- Virtue
He then as an aside says the following:
The life of money-making is one undertaken under compulsion, and wealth is evidently not the good we are seeking; for it is merely useful and for the sake of something else. And so one might rather take the aforenamed objects to be ends; for they are loved for themselves. But it is evident that not even these are ends; yet many arguments have been thrown away in support of them. Let us leave this subject, then (Nicomachean Ethics BK I.5)
At least on Aristotle's read, it makes no sense to make money the goal, because money is a tool used to acquire other things. In which case, money is not the goal -- it is the tool one sees as necessary to whatever one thinks the goal is. (to be more precise, money can only be an intermediate and not a final end, because it cannot logically be pursued for the sake of itself)
Stated another way, a logical (and perhaps moral) objection is that the pursuit of money for money's sake is an act of sheer idiocy. Money only has value in exchange for something.
- If the goal is to buy things, then it may be that money is actually being accumulated for pleasure.
- If the goal is to receive honor because you have a lot of money, then that's the goal (a billionaire's life is not materially altered by adding another billion, but the fame of having a growing fortune could be someone's end).
- If the goal is to have what is necessary for virtue (and enough things to live a life of relative ease are necessary for Aristotle's picture) then that's the real goal.
In an interesting way, Aristotle captures the later objections that could be raised by utilitarians -- since they would see pleasure ("happiness") as the goal.
answered 4 hours ago
virmaiorvirmaior
25.4k33997
25.4k33997
i wasn't sure this question was broad enough, but it made me laugh, so thanks
– another_name
4 hours ago
add a comment |
i wasn't sure this question was broad enough, but it made me laugh, so thanks
– another_name
4 hours ago
i wasn't sure this question was broad enough, but it made me laugh, so thanks
– another_name
4 hours ago
i wasn't sure this question was broad enough, but it made me laugh, so thanks
– another_name
4 hours ago
add a comment |
user39404 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user39404 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user39404 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
Seems like a very impoverished life. But if this is supposed to be modeled on Trump, it is off. People who are said to "only care about money" actually care about something else that the money brings: luxury, self-indulgence, ego-stroking, lack of material concerns, power, popularity, etc. There are of course objections from the point of view of standard moral systems with typical virtues, or values, or rules, but that is obvious, so it is a little unclear what you are looking for.
– Conifold
4 hours ago
Everyone is running their own race. I see no eason why devoting oneself to the accumulation of wealth would be any different from devoting oneself to any other thing. Though personally.devotion to a single purpose seems wasteful.
– Richard
4 hours ago
Your second question is off-topic here. We cannot give you personal advice how to convince someone to pursue a certain lifestyle
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran No sorry, the question is to ask for more reasons to than just the Aristotle one, and whether it philosophically right to convince someone that their lifestyle is “unethical”, both of which are philosophy questions
– user39404
3 hours ago
Regardless of motives, the malignant pursuit of wealth consumes far too much in natural resources, depriving others of shelter, food, water, clean air and soil, etc. It drives inflation, because of the shortage of resources which have been wasted or hoarded by the wealthy. It promotes pollution and destroys the very structure of the planet because of all the mining, transportation, technology, commerce, and industry involved in profiteering. It promotes human trafficking for cheap labor. It's an offense against both God (or Nature) and the human species. It has no redeeming qualities.
– Bread
2 hours ago