Hidden fifths between tenor and soprano in Tchaikovsky's “Guide to harmony”What's the difference between harmony and polyphony?Identifying Vocal HarmoniesAre counterpoint and harmony mutually exclusive?Dissonances and harmonyHelp harmonizing a pieceDifference between Chord Progression and Harmony?What is the difference between harmony and consonance in music?Appoggiatura chordBach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor breaks the “no parallel octaves” rule?Will this help me avoid parallel octaves in future fugue attempts?
Does the word voltage exist in academic engineering?
antimatter annihilation in stars
Is there a "right" way to interpret a novel, if not, how do we make sure our novel is interpreted correctly?
Could someone please explain what this inline #define assembly is doing?
How do we create our own symbolisms?
How to finish my PhD?
Examples where "thin + thin = nice and thick"
Python implementation of atoi
I need to know information from an old German birth certificate
Why is it that I have to play this note on the piano as A sharp?
PWM on 5V GPIO pin
Do aarakocra have arms as well as wings?
How can faith be maintained in a world of living gods?
Electric shock from pedals and guitar. Jacks too long?
Word for something that used to be popular but not anymore
Owner keeps cutting corners and poaching workers for his other company
Is it right to use the ideas of non-winning designers in a design contest?
When calculating averages, why can we treat exploding die as if they're independent?
Did "Dirty Harry" feel lucky?
Bit floating sequence
Short story: Interstellar inspector senses "off" nature of planet hiding aggressive culture
Creating Chessboard with Javascript
is it possible to change a material depending on whether it is intersecting with another object?
Schrodinger's Cat Isn't Meant To Be Taken Seriously, Right?
Hidden fifths between tenor and soprano in Tchaikovsky's “Guide to harmony”
What's the difference between harmony and polyphony?Identifying Vocal HarmoniesAre counterpoint and harmony mutually exclusive?Dissonances and harmonyHelp harmonizing a pieceDifference between Chord Progression and Harmony?What is the difference between harmony and consonance in music?Appoggiatura chordBach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor breaks the “no parallel octaves” rule?Will this help me avoid parallel octaves in future fugue attempts?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
I have been working through Tchaikovsky's "Guide to practical harmony" and found the following example quite early in the book:
I am talking about the first measure. To me it seems that soprano and tenor are approaching the perfect fifth in similar motion, which Tchaikovsky strongly prohibits later in the book (giving some exceptions with harmonic sequences). But this example he represents as a correct voice leading for bass and upper voices move contrary to each other.
I have following guess:
It seems like that he only cares about hidden fifths where bass is one of the voices, but he does not articulate it explicitly. In upper voices he cares only about parallel (not hidden fifths).
Can someone give an explanation?
Edit:
It can also be added that hidden fifth would have been completely ok, if we had the same tone in one of the voices (oblique motion), which we also do not have.
harmony counterpoint
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
add a comment |
I have been working through Tchaikovsky's "Guide to practical harmony" and found the following example quite early in the book:
I am talking about the first measure. To me it seems that soprano and tenor are approaching the perfect fifth in similar motion, which Tchaikovsky strongly prohibits later in the book (giving some exceptions with harmonic sequences). But this example he represents as a correct voice leading for bass and upper voices move contrary to each other.
I have following guess:
It seems like that he only cares about hidden fifths where bass is one of the voices, but he does not articulate it explicitly. In upper voices he cares only about parallel (not hidden fifths).
Can someone give an explanation?
Edit:
It can also be added that hidden fifth would have been completely ok, if we had the same tone in one of the voices (oblique motion), which we also do not have.
harmony counterpoint
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
add a comment |
I have been working through Tchaikovsky's "Guide to practical harmony" and found the following example quite early in the book:
I am talking about the first measure. To me it seems that soprano and tenor are approaching the perfect fifth in similar motion, which Tchaikovsky strongly prohibits later in the book (giving some exceptions with harmonic sequences). But this example he represents as a correct voice leading for bass and upper voices move contrary to each other.
I have following guess:
It seems like that he only cares about hidden fifths where bass is one of the voices, but he does not articulate it explicitly. In upper voices he cares only about parallel (not hidden fifths).
Can someone give an explanation?
Edit:
It can also be added that hidden fifth would have been completely ok, if we had the same tone in one of the voices (oblique motion), which we also do not have.
harmony counterpoint
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
I have been working through Tchaikovsky's "Guide to practical harmony" and found the following example quite early in the book:
I am talking about the first measure. To me it seems that soprano and tenor are approaching the perfect fifth in similar motion, which Tchaikovsky strongly prohibits later in the book (giving some exceptions with harmonic sequences). But this example he represents as a correct voice leading for bass and upper voices move contrary to each other.
I have following guess:
It seems like that he only cares about hidden fifths where bass is one of the voices, but he does not articulate it explicitly. In upper voices he cares only about parallel (not hidden fifths).
Can someone give an explanation?
Edit:
It can also be added that hidden fifth would have been completely ok, if we had the same tone in one of the voices (oblique motion), which we also do not have.
harmony counterpoint
harmony counterpoint
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
edited 6 hours ago
NickQuant
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
NickQuantNickQuant
386 bronze badges
386 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
You can‘t join 2 neighbored chords without having hidden parallels. And they have no common tone!
Most important is counter movement between bass and soprano.
Notice also example 27 on the next page:
Hidden fifths can actually only be avoided by doubling the 3rd of the second chord like in harmonic minor V-VI.
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
Oh! You are right. I have overseen this. The "gut" examples do not have the same tone in the same voice, which actually is said to be a prerequisite for accepting a hidden fifth, octave. So should I avoid by doubling the 3rd or is it ok and we care only about hidden parallels with a bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
If I rephrase the previous question. Does my progression become "better" from some harmonic perspective if I drop the third or it is irrelevant for the contrary movement of bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "240"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f88479%2fhidden-fifths-between-tenor-and-soprano-in-tchaikovskys-guide-to-harmony%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
You can‘t join 2 neighbored chords without having hidden parallels. And they have no common tone!
Most important is counter movement between bass and soprano.
Notice also example 27 on the next page:
Hidden fifths can actually only be avoided by doubling the 3rd of the second chord like in harmonic minor V-VI.
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
Oh! You are right. I have overseen this. The "gut" examples do not have the same tone in the same voice, which actually is said to be a prerequisite for accepting a hidden fifth, octave. So should I avoid by doubling the 3rd or is it ok and we care only about hidden parallels with a bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
If I rephrase the previous question. Does my progression become "better" from some harmonic perspective if I drop the third or it is irrelevant for the contrary movement of bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
add a comment |
You can‘t join 2 neighbored chords without having hidden parallels. And they have no common tone!
Most important is counter movement between bass and soprano.
Notice also example 27 on the next page:
Hidden fifths can actually only be avoided by doubling the 3rd of the second chord like in harmonic minor V-VI.
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
Oh! You are right. I have overseen this. The "gut" examples do not have the same tone in the same voice, which actually is said to be a prerequisite for accepting a hidden fifth, octave. So should I avoid by doubling the 3rd or is it ok and we care only about hidden parallels with a bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
If I rephrase the previous question. Does my progression become "better" from some harmonic perspective if I drop the third or it is irrelevant for the contrary movement of bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
add a comment |
You can‘t join 2 neighbored chords without having hidden parallels. And they have no common tone!
Most important is counter movement between bass and soprano.
Notice also example 27 on the next page:
Hidden fifths can actually only be avoided by doubling the 3rd of the second chord like in harmonic minor V-VI.
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
You can‘t join 2 neighbored chords without having hidden parallels. And they have no common tone!
Most important is counter movement between bass and soprano.
Notice also example 27 on the next page:
Hidden fifths can actually only be avoided by doubling the 3rd of the second chord like in harmonic minor V-VI.
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
7,1671 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
Oh! You are right. I have overseen this. The "gut" examples do not have the same tone in the same voice, which actually is said to be a prerequisite for accepting a hidden fifth, octave. So should I avoid by doubling the 3rd or is it ok and we care only about hidden parallels with a bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
If I rephrase the previous question. Does my progression become "better" from some harmonic perspective if I drop the third or it is irrelevant for the contrary movement of bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Oh! You are right. I have overseen this. The "gut" examples do not have the same tone in the same voice, which actually is said to be a prerequisite for accepting a hidden fifth, octave. So should I avoid by doubling the 3rd or is it ok and we care only about hidden parallels with a bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
If I rephrase the previous question. Does my progression become "better" from some harmonic perspective if I drop the third or it is irrelevant for the contrary movement of bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
Oh! You are right. I have overseen this. The "gut" examples do not have the same tone in the same voice, which actually is said to be a prerequisite for accepting a hidden fifth, octave. So should I avoid by doubling the 3rd or is it ok and we care only about hidden parallels with a bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
Oh! You are right. I have overseen this. The "gut" examples do not have the same tone in the same voice, which actually is said to be a prerequisite for accepting a hidden fifth, octave. So should I avoid by doubling the 3rd or is it ok and we care only about hidden parallels with a bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
If I rephrase the previous question. Does my progression become "better" from some harmonic perspective if I drop the third or it is irrelevant for the contrary movement of bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
If I rephrase the previous question. Does my progression become "better" from some harmonic perspective if I drop the third or it is irrelevant for the contrary movement of bass?
– NickQuant
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f88479%2fhidden-fifths-between-tenor-and-soprano-in-tchaikovskys-guide-to-harmony%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
