Why a circle with a hole in it is not compact?Does closed set contain only boundary points or interior points also?How do you prove that a set is closed using only elements within the set? (Are there any properties specific to members of closed sets?)$mathbbQ$ is not open, is not closed, but is the countable union of closed sets.How to prove that the complement of a closed set in $mathbbR^n$ is open?Does compact set always contain supremum and infimum without Heine Borel?Prove that interval $(0,1]$ is not compactCircle within a circle. Is it an open set?Determining if following sets are closed, open, or compactWhy isn't the Sorgenfrey line sigma-compact?Proof of a compact set without using Heine-Borel

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Why a circle with a hole in it is not compact?


Does closed set contain only boundary points or interior points also?How do you prove that a set is closed using only elements within the set? (Are there any properties specific to members of closed sets?)$mathbbQ$ is not open, is not closed, but is the countable union of closed sets.How to prove that the complement of a closed set in $mathbbR^n$ is open?Does compact set always contain supremum and infimum without Heine Borel?Prove that interval $(0,1]$ is not compactCircle within a circle. Is it an open set?Determining if following sets are closed, open, or compactWhy isn't the Sorgenfrey line sigma-compact?Proof of a compact set without using Heine-Borel













6












$begingroup$


Take the real plane $mathbb R^2$ with the standard topology, and take $Asubset mathbb R^2$ which is a closed circle minus a smaller closed circle:



enter image description here



I am trying to understand why this set is not compact, the hint is to use the Heine-Borel theorem. For me, intuitively, the set is bounded because it can be enclosed by an open ball, so the property it lacks is being closed. One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation. Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2-A$ is open, but the resultant set has a closed ball at its center, so i think that this doesn't explain it either. Any insights will be greatly appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    In your title : "circle" should be "disk"
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you define compactness via covers by open sets?
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Frost
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It's hole but compact.
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation." Why not?
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2setminus A$ is open." This is false. You need to show that the complement is not open.
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago















6












$begingroup$


Take the real plane $mathbb R^2$ with the standard topology, and take $Asubset mathbb R^2$ which is a closed circle minus a smaller closed circle:



enter image description here



I am trying to understand why this set is not compact, the hint is to use the Heine-Borel theorem. For me, intuitively, the set is bounded because it can be enclosed by an open ball, so the property it lacks is being closed. One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation. Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2-A$ is open, but the resultant set has a closed ball at its center, so i think that this doesn't explain it either. Any insights will be greatly appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    In your title : "circle" should be "disk"
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you define compactness via covers by open sets?
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Frost
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It's hole but compact.
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation." Why not?
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2setminus A$ is open." This is false. You need to show that the complement is not open.
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago













6












6








6





$begingroup$


Take the real plane $mathbb R^2$ with the standard topology, and take $Asubset mathbb R^2$ which is a closed circle minus a smaller closed circle:



enter image description here



I am trying to understand why this set is not compact, the hint is to use the Heine-Borel theorem. For me, intuitively, the set is bounded because it can be enclosed by an open ball, so the property it lacks is being closed. One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation. Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2-A$ is open, but the resultant set has a closed ball at its center, so i think that this doesn't explain it either. Any insights will be greatly appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




Take the real plane $mathbb R^2$ with the standard topology, and take $Asubset mathbb R^2$ which is a closed circle minus a smaller closed circle:



enter image description here



I am trying to understand why this set is not compact, the hint is to use the Heine-Borel theorem. For me, intuitively, the set is bounded because it can be enclosed by an open ball, so the property it lacks is being closed. One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation. Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2-A$ is open, but the resultant set has a closed ball at its center, so i think that this doesn't explain it either. Any insights will be greatly appreciated.







general-topology






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









Jacob Morales GonzalezJacob Morales Gonzalez

763




763







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    In your title : "circle" should be "disk"
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you define compactness via covers by open sets?
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Frost
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It's hole but compact.
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation." Why not?
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2setminus A$ is open." This is false. You need to show that the complement is not open.
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago












  • 5




    $begingroup$
    In your title : "circle" should be "disk"
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you define compactness via covers by open sets?
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Frost
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It's hole but compact.
    $endgroup$
    – Jean Marie
    7 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation." Why not?
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2setminus A$ is open." This is false. You need to show that the complement is not open.
    $endgroup$
    – Cheerful Parsnip
    7 hours ago







5




5




$begingroup$
In your title : "circle" should be "disk"
$endgroup$
– Jean Marie
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
In your title : "circle" should be "disk"
$endgroup$
– Jean Marie
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
Do you define compactness via covers by open sets?
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Do you define compactness via covers by open sets?
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
It's hole but compact.
$endgroup$
– Jean Marie
7 hours ago





$begingroup$
It's hole but compact.
$endgroup$
– Jean Marie
7 hours ago





2




2




$begingroup$
"One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation." Why not?
$endgroup$
– Cheerful Parsnip
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
"One definition for a closed set states that the set must contain all its frontier points, in this case it doesn't contain the "interior" frontier points, but i don't think is a good explanation." Why not?
$endgroup$
– Cheerful Parsnip
7 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
"Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2setminus A$ is open." This is false. You need to show that the complement is not open.
$endgroup$
– Cheerful Parsnip
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
"Another way to prove it is not closed is $mathbb R^2setminus A$ is open." This is false. You need to show that the complement is not open.
$endgroup$
– Cheerful Parsnip
7 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

You are on the right track! Indeed, as the hint suggests you should show that $A$ is not closed, i.e. it does not contain all of its limit points.



To do this, all you need to do is find a sequence in $A$ whose limit is not contained in $A$. Can you think of one?






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$

    If we have the standard unit circle with hole at $(0,0)$, consider the sequence $(frac1n, 0)$ which lies in the puntured circle and converges to the hole, in the plane at least. This shows your set is not closed hence not compact. In the case of an annulus, as you describe, the set would be something like $ le R$ ($R$ being the lareg radius, $r$ the small one). Its boundary is two circles, the inner one of radius $r$ not being a subset of the annulus, also showing the non-closedness that way.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




















      0












      $begingroup$

      Using the Heine-Borel theorem just means saying, $A$ is not closed, hence not compact.



      If you want, however, an explanation as to what fails here, let's use this special case: let $A$ be the closed unit disc, centered at the origin, with the center removed. (So, again, $A$ fails to be closed.) Consider the open sets
      $$
      U_n = left, quad n = 1, 2, ldots.
      $$

      These are the open exteriors of the circles with radii $1/n$ and center at the origin. The sets $U_n$ constitute an open cover of $A$. But there is no finite subcover.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$




















        0












        $begingroup$

        I suggest that you ignore the imprecision of the "interior" language.



        I also suggest you look at an actual mathematical formula for your set $A$. Let $C$ be the center of the two circles, let $r$ be the radius of the smaller circle, and let $R$ be the radius of the larger circle. With this notation we have
        $$A = P in mathbb R^2 mid r < d(C,P) le R
        $$

        Note the strict inequality on the left versus the nonstrict inequality on the right.



        Now take any point $Q$ on the smaller circle, i.e. any point $Q$ such that $d(C,Q)=r$. The point $Q$ is a limit point of $A$, and the point $Q$ is not an element of the set $A$, and therefore $A$ is not closed.






        share|cite|improve this answer











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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes








          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          2












          $begingroup$

          You are on the right track! Indeed, as the hint suggests you should show that $A$ is not closed, i.e. it does not contain all of its limit points.



          To do this, all you need to do is find a sequence in $A$ whose limit is not contained in $A$. Can you think of one?






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$

















            2












            $begingroup$

            You are on the right track! Indeed, as the hint suggests you should show that $A$ is not closed, i.e. it does not contain all of its limit points.



            To do this, all you need to do is find a sequence in $A$ whose limit is not contained in $A$. Can you think of one?






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$















              2












              2








              2





              $begingroup$

              You are on the right track! Indeed, as the hint suggests you should show that $A$ is not closed, i.e. it does not contain all of its limit points.



              To do this, all you need to do is find a sequence in $A$ whose limit is not contained in $A$. Can you think of one?






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              You are on the right track! Indeed, as the hint suggests you should show that $A$ is not closed, i.e. it does not contain all of its limit points.



              To do this, all you need to do is find a sequence in $A$ whose limit is not contained in $A$. Can you think of one?







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered 8 hours ago









              tiatia

              650111




              650111





















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  If we have the standard unit circle with hole at $(0,0)$, consider the sequence $(frac1n, 0)$ which lies in the puntured circle and converges to the hole, in the plane at least. This shows your set is not closed hence not compact. In the case of an annulus, as you describe, the set would be something like $ le R$ ($R$ being the lareg radius, $r$ the small one). Its boundary is two circles, the inner one of radius $r$ not being a subset of the annulus, also showing the non-closedness that way.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$

















                    1












                    $begingroup$

                    If we have the standard unit circle with hole at $(0,0)$, consider the sequence $(frac1n, 0)$ which lies in the puntured circle and converges to the hole, in the plane at least. This shows your set is not closed hence not compact. In the case of an annulus, as you describe, the set would be something like $ le R$ ($R$ being the lareg radius, $r$ the small one). Its boundary is two circles, the inner one of radius $r$ not being a subset of the annulus, also showing the non-closedness that way.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$















                      1












                      1








                      1





                      $begingroup$

                      If we have the standard unit circle with hole at $(0,0)$, consider the sequence $(frac1n, 0)$ which lies in the puntured circle and converges to the hole, in the plane at least. This shows your set is not closed hence not compact. In the case of an annulus, as you describe, the set would be something like $ le R$ ($R$ being the lareg radius, $r$ the small one). Its boundary is two circles, the inner one of radius $r$ not being a subset of the annulus, also showing the non-closedness that way.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      If we have the standard unit circle with hole at $(0,0)$, consider the sequence $(frac1n, 0)$ which lies in the puntured circle and converges to the hole, in the plane at least. This shows your set is not closed hence not compact. In the case of an annulus, as you describe, the set would be something like $ le R$ ($R$ being the lareg radius, $r$ the small one). Its boundary is two circles, the inner one of radius $r$ not being a subset of the annulus, also showing the non-closedness that way.







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered 8 hours ago









                      Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma

                      121k351134




                      121k351134





















                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          Using the Heine-Borel theorem just means saying, $A$ is not closed, hence not compact.



                          If you want, however, an explanation as to what fails here, let's use this special case: let $A$ be the closed unit disc, centered at the origin, with the center removed. (So, again, $A$ fails to be closed.) Consider the open sets
                          $$
                          U_n = left, quad n = 1, 2, ldots.
                          $$

                          These are the open exteriors of the circles with radii $1/n$ and center at the origin. The sets $U_n$ constitute an open cover of $A$. But there is no finite subcover.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$

















                            0












                            $begingroup$

                            Using the Heine-Borel theorem just means saying, $A$ is not closed, hence not compact.



                            If you want, however, an explanation as to what fails here, let's use this special case: let $A$ be the closed unit disc, centered at the origin, with the center removed. (So, again, $A$ fails to be closed.) Consider the open sets
                            $$
                            U_n = left, quad n = 1, 2, ldots.
                            $$

                            These are the open exteriors of the circles with radii $1/n$ and center at the origin. The sets $U_n$ constitute an open cover of $A$. But there is no finite subcover.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$















                              0












                              0








                              0





                              $begingroup$

                              Using the Heine-Borel theorem just means saying, $A$ is not closed, hence not compact.



                              If you want, however, an explanation as to what fails here, let's use this special case: let $A$ be the closed unit disc, centered at the origin, with the center removed. (So, again, $A$ fails to be closed.) Consider the open sets
                              $$
                              U_n = left, quad n = 1, 2, ldots.
                              $$

                              These are the open exteriors of the circles with radii $1/n$ and center at the origin. The sets $U_n$ constitute an open cover of $A$. But there is no finite subcover.






                              share|cite|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$



                              Using the Heine-Borel theorem just means saying, $A$ is not closed, hence not compact.



                              If you want, however, an explanation as to what fails here, let's use this special case: let $A$ be the closed unit disc, centered at the origin, with the center removed. (So, again, $A$ fails to be closed.) Consider the open sets
                              $$
                              U_n = left, quad n = 1, 2, ldots.
                              $$

                              These are the open exteriors of the circles with radii $1/n$ and center at the origin. The sets $U_n$ constitute an open cover of $A$. But there is no finite subcover.







                              share|cite|improve this answer












                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer










                              answered 7 hours ago









                              avsavs

                              5,0411515




                              5,0411515





















                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I suggest that you ignore the imprecision of the "interior" language.



                                  I also suggest you look at an actual mathematical formula for your set $A$. Let $C$ be the center of the two circles, let $r$ be the radius of the smaller circle, and let $R$ be the radius of the larger circle. With this notation we have
                                  $$A = P in mathbb R^2 mid r < d(C,P) le R
                                  $$

                                  Note the strict inequality on the left versus the nonstrict inequality on the right.



                                  Now take any point $Q$ on the smaller circle, i.e. any point $Q$ such that $d(C,Q)=r$. The point $Q$ is a limit point of $A$, and the point $Q$ is not an element of the set $A$, and therefore $A$ is not closed.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$

















                                    0












                                    $begingroup$

                                    I suggest that you ignore the imprecision of the "interior" language.



                                    I also suggest you look at an actual mathematical formula for your set $A$. Let $C$ be the center of the two circles, let $r$ be the radius of the smaller circle, and let $R$ be the radius of the larger circle. With this notation we have
                                    $$A = P in mathbb R^2 mid r < d(C,P) le R
                                    $$

                                    Note the strict inequality on the left versus the nonstrict inequality on the right.



                                    Now take any point $Q$ on the smaller circle, i.e. any point $Q$ such that $d(C,Q)=r$. The point $Q$ is a limit point of $A$, and the point $Q$ is not an element of the set $A$, and therefore $A$ is not closed.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                    $endgroup$















                                      0












                                      0








                                      0





                                      $begingroup$

                                      I suggest that you ignore the imprecision of the "interior" language.



                                      I also suggest you look at an actual mathematical formula for your set $A$. Let $C$ be the center of the two circles, let $r$ be the radius of the smaller circle, and let $R$ be the radius of the larger circle. With this notation we have
                                      $$A = P in mathbb R^2 mid r < d(C,P) le R
                                      $$

                                      Note the strict inequality on the left versus the nonstrict inequality on the right.



                                      Now take any point $Q$ on the smaller circle, i.e. any point $Q$ such that $d(C,Q)=r$. The point $Q$ is a limit point of $A$, and the point $Q$ is not an element of the set $A$, and therefore $A$ is not closed.






                                      share|cite|improve this answer











                                      $endgroup$



                                      I suggest that you ignore the imprecision of the "interior" language.



                                      I also suggest you look at an actual mathematical formula for your set $A$. Let $C$ be the center of the two circles, let $r$ be the radius of the smaller circle, and let $R$ be the radius of the larger circle. With this notation we have
                                      $$A = P in mathbb R^2 mid r < d(C,P) le R
                                      $$

                                      Note the strict inequality on the left versus the nonstrict inequality on the right.



                                      Now take any point $Q$ on the smaller circle, i.e. any point $Q$ such that $d(C,Q)=r$. The point $Q$ is a limit point of $A$, and the point $Q$ is not an element of the set $A$, and therefore $A$ is not closed.







                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      share|cite|improve this answer



                                      share|cite|improve this answer








                                      edited 6 hours ago

























                                      answered 6 hours ago









                                      Lee MosherLee Mosher

                                      54k43894




                                      54k43894



























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