Could the Missouri River be running while Lake Michigan was frozen several meters deep?
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Could the Missouri River be running while Lake Michigan was frozen several meters deep?
$begingroup$
During an ice age, would it be possible for a great lake to be frozen while a relatively nearby river was still running? To help illustrate my point:
Would it be possible for Lake Michigan (or parts of it) to be frozen up to ten meters deep? All the while the Missouri River was still running around Kansas City? Or would all surrounding bodies of water necessarily be frozen solid?
Are such varying temperatures and conditions feasible in any way? What should be taken into account?
Edit 1: Rephrased.
Edit 2: While the question's technically answered, further insight is much appreciated.
Edit 3: Clarification.
reality-check physics climate geography ice
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
During an ice age, would it be possible for a great lake to be frozen while a relatively nearby river was still running? To help illustrate my point:
Would it be possible for Lake Michigan (or parts of it) to be frozen up to ten meters deep? All the while the Missouri River was still running around Kansas City? Or would all surrounding bodies of water necessarily be frozen solid?
Are such varying temperatures and conditions feasible in any way? What should be taken into account?
Edit 1: Rephrased.
Edit 2: While the question's technically answered, further insight is much appreciated.
Edit 3: Clarification.
reality-check physics climate geography ice
New contributor
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
All you need a new Glacial Maximum.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Do you count the Missouri as running if it is not frozen solid? Or does only open water = running?
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk, Perhaps my question was a bit backwards. I was wondering if all surrounding waters would be frozen solid under such conditions. Or if some close bodies of water could still be (partially) liquid or in motion. To answer your question: Yes. Not frozen soild = running.
$endgroup$
– McMurphy
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
During an ice age, would it be possible for a great lake to be frozen while a relatively nearby river was still running? To help illustrate my point:
Would it be possible for Lake Michigan (or parts of it) to be frozen up to ten meters deep? All the while the Missouri River was still running around Kansas City? Or would all surrounding bodies of water necessarily be frozen solid?
Are such varying temperatures and conditions feasible in any way? What should be taken into account?
Edit 1: Rephrased.
Edit 2: While the question's technically answered, further insight is much appreciated.
Edit 3: Clarification.
reality-check physics climate geography ice
New contributor
$endgroup$
During an ice age, would it be possible for a great lake to be frozen while a relatively nearby river was still running? To help illustrate my point:
Would it be possible for Lake Michigan (or parts of it) to be frozen up to ten meters deep? All the while the Missouri River was still running around Kansas City? Or would all surrounding bodies of water necessarily be frozen solid?
Are such varying temperatures and conditions feasible in any way? What should be taken into account?
Edit 1: Rephrased.
Edit 2: While the question's technically answered, further insight is much appreciated.
Edit 3: Clarification.
reality-check physics climate geography ice
reality-check physics climate geography ice
New contributor
New contributor
edited 6 hours ago
McMurphy
New contributor
asked 8 hours ago
McMurphyMcMurphy
235
235
New contributor
New contributor
1
$begingroup$
All you need a new Glacial Maximum.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Do you count the Missouri as running if it is not frozen solid? Or does only open water = running?
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk, Perhaps my question was a bit backwards. I was wondering if all surrounding waters would be frozen solid under such conditions. Or if some close bodies of water could still be (partially) liquid or in motion. To answer your question: Yes. Not frozen soild = running.
$endgroup$
– McMurphy
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
All you need a new Glacial Maximum.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Do you count the Missouri as running if it is not frozen solid? Or does only open water = running?
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk, Perhaps my question was a bit backwards. I was wondering if all surrounding waters would be frozen solid under such conditions. Or if some close bodies of water could still be (partially) liquid or in motion. To answer your question: Yes. Not frozen soild = running.
$endgroup$
– McMurphy
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
All you need a new Glacial Maximum.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
All you need a new Glacial Maximum.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Do you count the Missouri as running if it is not frozen solid? Or does only open water = running?
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Do you count the Missouri as running if it is not frozen solid? Or does only open water = running?
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk, Perhaps my question was a bit backwards. I was wondering if all surrounding waters would be frozen solid under such conditions. Or if some close bodies of water could still be (partially) liquid or in motion. To answer your question: Yes. Not frozen soild = running.
$endgroup$
– McMurphy
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk, Perhaps my question was a bit backwards. I was wondering if all surrounding waters would be frozen solid under such conditions. Or if some close bodies of water could still be (partially) liquid or in motion. To answer your question: Yes. Not frozen soild = running.
$endgroup$
– McMurphy
6 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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$begingroup$
Sure, and it did. While there was no Lake Michigan during the Last Glacial Maximum, the Laurentide Ice Sheet was up to a 1500 meters or more thick around the Chicago area, while it never reached as far south as Kansas City, which means rivers would be running during the summer. A sufficiently large river could run al year (albeit frozen over).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think I can realistically say that the Glacial Ice was, in fact far far deeper that a handful of meters. Most estimates range from the mile-thick to only a couple of thousand meters. In most cases, it is considered that the Missouri river's current location is a direct result of the glaciers depositing earth, rocks, etc at the terminal edge. Prior to the Ice Ages, it is thought that there simply were no 'great lakes', they were scraped from the earth by ice over long periods of time.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You have your measurements backwards. A couple of thousand meters is more than a mile.
$endgroup$
– Keith Morrison
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It sort of depends. Rivers rarely (if ever) have a single source for their headwaters. Rivers are a collection of hundreds of smaller tributaries.
Sealing a single source, even a major one in ice would certainly reduce the flow of water downstream, but unless you remove the majority it will still flow to some degree.
So the real question I think we need to ask is, what all is frozen? Once you define that I think you will be able to answer it yourself.
A few things to consider:
- Is the glacial area spreading or retreating?
- If it is expanding you can expect the flow of the river to continue to dwindle
- If it is retreating (end of the ice age) you'd likely see larger flows.
- If its just sort of stable the edges of the glaciers will melt, providing a regular flow, probably heavier in the summer months and lower in the winter months...possibly turning off completely in the winter.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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$begingroup$
Sure, and it did. While there was no Lake Michigan during the Last Glacial Maximum, the Laurentide Ice Sheet was up to a 1500 meters or more thick around the Chicago area, while it never reached as far south as Kansas City, which means rivers would be running during the summer. A sufficiently large river could run al year (albeit frozen over).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Sure, and it did. While there was no Lake Michigan during the Last Glacial Maximum, the Laurentide Ice Sheet was up to a 1500 meters or more thick around the Chicago area, while it never reached as far south as Kansas City, which means rivers would be running during the summer. A sufficiently large river could run al year (albeit frozen over).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Sure, and it did. While there was no Lake Michigan during the Last Glacial Maximum, the Laurentide Ice Sheet was up to a 1500 meters or more thick around the Chicago area, while it never reached as far south as Kansas City, which means rivers would be running during the summer. A sufficiently large river could run al year (albeit frozen over).
$endgroup$
Sure, and it did. While there was no Lake Michigan during the Last Glacial Maximum, the Laurentide Ice Sheet was up to a 1500 meters or more thick around the Chicago area, while it never reached as far south as Kansas City, which means rivers would be running during the summer. A sufficiently large river could run al year (albeit frozen over).
answered 6 hours ago
Keith MorrisonKeith Morrison
8,10511631
8,10511631
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think I can realistically say that the Glacial Ice was, in fact far far deeper that a handful of meters. Most estimates range from the mile-thick to only a couple of thousand meters. In most cases, it is considered that the Missouri river's current location is a direct result of the glaciers depositing earth, rocks, etc at the terminal edge. Prior to the Ice Ages, it is thought that there simply were no 'great lakes', they were scraped from the earth by ice over long periods of time.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You have your measurements backwards. A couple of thousand meters is more than a mile.
$endgroup$
– Keith Morrison
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think I can realistically say that the Glacial Ice was, in fact far far deeper that a handful of meters. Most estimates range from the mile-thick to only a couple of thousand meters. In most cases, it is considered that the Missouri river's current location is a direct result of the glaciers depositing earth, rocks, etc at the terminal edge. Prior to the Ice Ages, it is thought that there simply were no 'great lakes', they were scraped from the earth by ice over long periods of time.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You have your measurements backwards. A couple of thousand meters is more than a mile.
$endgroup$
– Keith Morrison
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think I can realistically say that the Glacial Ice was, in fact far far deeper that a handful of meters. Most estimates range from the mile-thick to only a couple of thousand meters. In most cases, it is considered that the Missouri river's current location is a direct result of the glaciers depositing earth, rocks, etc at the terminal edge. Prior to the Ice Ages, it is thought that there simply were no 'great lakes', they were scraped from the earth by ice over long periods of time.
$endgroup$
I think I can realistically say that the Glacial Ice was, in fact far far deeper that a handful of meters. Most estimates range from the mile-thick to only a couple of thousand meters. In most cases, it is considered that the Missouri river's current location is a direct result of the glaciers depositing earth, rocks, etc at the terminal edge. Prior to the Ice Ages, it is thought that there simply were no 'great lakes', they were scraped from the earth by ice over long periods of time.
answered 8 hours ago
JoeJoe
2,797618
2,797618
$begingroup$
You have your measurements backwards. A couple of thousand meters is more than a mile.
$endgroup$
– Keith Morrison
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You have your measurements backwards. A couple of thousand meters is more than a mile.
$endgroup$
– Keith Morrison
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You have your measurements backwards. A couple of thousand meters is more than a mile.
$endgroup$
– Keith Morrison
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You have your measurements backwards. A couple of thousand meters is more than a mile.
$endgroup$
– Keith Morrison
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It sort of depends. Rivers rarely (if ever) have a single source for their headwaters. Rivers are a collection of hundreds of smaller tributaries.
Sealing a single source, even a major one in ice would certainly reduce the flow of water downstream, but unless you remove the majority it will still flow to some degree.
So the real question I think we need to ask is, what all is frozen? Once you define that I think you will be able to answer it yourself.
A few things to consider:
- Is the glacial area spreading or retreating?
- If it is expanding you can expect the flow of the river to continue to dwindle
- If it is retreating (end of the ice age) you'd likely see larger flows.
- If its just sort of stable the edges of the glaciers will melt, providing a regular flow, probably heavier in the summer months and lower in the winter months...possibly turning off completely in the winter.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It sort of depends. Rivers rarely (if ever) have a single source for their headwaters. Rivers are a collection of hundreds of smaller tributaries.
Sealing a single source, even a major one in ice would certainly reduce the flow of water downstream, but unless you remove the majority it will still flow to some degree.
So the real question I think we need to ask is, what all is frozen? Once you define that I think you will be able to answer it yourself.
A few things to consider:
- Is the glacial area spreading or retreating?
- If it is expanding you can expect the flow of the river to continue to dwindle
- If it is retreating (end of the ice age) you'd likely see larger flows.
- If its just sort of stable the edges of the glaciers will melt, providing a regular flow, probably heavier in the summer months and lower in the winter months...possibly turning off completely in the winter.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It sort of depends. Rivers rarely (if ever) have a single source for their headwaters. Rivers are a collection of hundreds of smaller tributaries.
Sealing a single source, even a major one in ice would certainly reduce the flow of water downstream, but unless you remove the majority it will still flow to some degree.
So the real question I think we need to ask is, what all is frozen? Once you define that I think you will be able to answer it yourself.
A few things to consider:
- Is the glacial area spreading or retreating?
- If it is expanding you can expect the flow of the river to continue to dwindle
- If it is retreating (end of the ice age) you'd likely see larger flows.
- If its just sort of stable the edges of the glaciers will melt, providing a regular flow, probably heavier in the summer months and lower in the winter months...possibly turning off completely in the winter.
$endgroup$
It sort of depends. Rivers rarely (if ever) have a single source for their headwaters. Rivers are a collection of hundreds of smaller tributaries.
Sealing a single source, even a major one in ice would certainly reduce the flow of water downstream, but unless you remove the majority it will still flow to some degree.
So the real question I think we need to ask is, what all is frozen? Once you define that I think you will be able to answer it yourself.
A few things to consider:
- Is the glacial area spreading or retreating?
- If it is expanding you can expect the flow of the river to continue to dwindle
- If it is retreating (end of the ice age) you'd likely see larger flows.
- If its just sort of stable the edges of the glaciers will melt, providing a regular flow, probably heavier in the summer months and lower in the winter months...possibly turning off completely in the winter.
answered 7 hours ago
James♦James
25.3k1196183
25.3k1196183
add a comment |
add a comment |
McMurphy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
McMurphy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
McMurphy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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$begingroup$
All you need a new Glacial Maximum.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Do you count the Missouri as running if it is not frozen solid? Or does only open water = running?
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk, Perhaps my question was a bit backwards. I was wondering if all surrounding waters would be frozen solid under such conditions. Or if some close bodies of water could still be (partially) liquid or in motion. To answer your question: Yes. Not frozen soild = running.
$endgroup$
– McMurphy
6 hours ago