Dual to hypercontractive inequalityDual/complement of independence systemHas this form of “kind-of-dual” homomorphisms been studied?Given a subset of the hypercube and a copy translated by s, find sHow tight is the XOR lemma?
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Dual to hypercontractive inequality
Dual/complement of independence systemHas this form of “kind-of-dual” homomorphisms been studied?Given a subset of the hypercube and a copy translated by s, find sHow tight is the XOR lemma?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
Recall the hypercontractive inequality:
Let $rho = sqrtfracp-1q-1$, then $||T_rho(f)||_q leq ||f||_p$
In https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~odonnell/papers/analysis-survey.pdf it is stated that the dual of the hypercontractive inequality is equivalent to the following:
If $f$ has degree at most $d$, then
$||f||_q leq rho ^ d ||f||_p$
I am unable to show this (Specifically, the direction that the original version implies the dual version), and would like to help.
Attempt-
We know for every $g$, $||T_rho(g)||_q leq ||g||_p$
Plugging $g = T_frac1rho(f)$,
$||f||_q leq ||T_frac1rho(f)||_p$
Now if $p=2$ it's clear how to finish since it's clear how $T_frac1rho$(f) affect the fourier coefficients, and it's clear how the fourier coefficients relate to the $l_2$ norm. However for $pneq 2$, it's not clear to me how to show $||T_frac1rho(f)||_p leq frac1rho ^d ||f||_p$, or even relate the norms.
I will note the proof that the dual implies us works well here (I can provide more detalis if needed, but I don't think it will help).
co.combinatorics boolean-functions
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Recall the hypercontractive inequality:
Let $rho = sqrtfracp-1q-1$, then $||T_rho(f)||_q leq ||f||_p$
In https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~odonnell/papers/analysis-survey.pdf it is stated that the dual of the hypercontractive inequality is equivalent to the following:
If $f$ has degree at most $d$, then
$||f||_q leq rho ^ d ||f||_p$
I am unable to show this (Specifically, the direction that the original version implies the dual version), and would like to help.
Attempt-
We know for every $g$, $||T_rho(g)||_q leq ||g||_p$
Plugging $g = T_frac1rho(f)$,
$||f||_q leq ||T_frac1rho(f)||_p$
Now if $p=2$ it's clear how to finish since it's clear how $T_frac1rho$(f) affect the fourier coefficients, and it's clear how the fourier coefficients relate to the $l_2$ norm. However for $pneq 2$, it's not clear to me how to show $||T_frac1rho(f)||_p leq frac1rho ^d ||f||_p$, or even relate the norms.
I will note the proof that the dual implies us works well here (I can provide more detalis if needed, but I don't think it will help).
co.combinatorics boolean-functions
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Recall the hypercontractive inequality:
Let $rho = sqrtfracp-1q-1$, then $||T_rho(f)||_q leq ||f||_p$
In https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~odonnell/papers/analysis-survey.pdf it is stated that the dual of the hypercontractive inequality is equivalent to the following:
If $f$ has degree at most $d$, then
$||f||_q leq rho ^ d ||f||_p$
I am unable to show this (Specifically, the direction that the original version implies the dual version), and would like to help.
Attempt-
We know for every $g$, $||T_rho(g)||_q leq ||g||_p$
Plugging $g = T_frac1rho(f)$,
$||f||_q leq ||T_frac1rho(f)||_p$
Now if $p=2$ it's clear how to finish since it's clear how $T_frac1rho$(f) affect the fourier coefficients, and it's clear how the fourier coefficients relate to the $l_2$ norm. However for $pneq 2$, it's not clear to me how to show $||T_frac1rho(f)||_p leq frac1rho ^d ||f||_p$, or even relate the norms.
I will note the proof that the dual implies us works well here (I can provide more detalis if needed, but I don't think it will help).
co.combinatorics boolean-functions
$endgroup$
Recall the hypercontractive inequality:
Let $rho = sqrtfracp-1q-1$, then $||T_rho(f)||_q leq ||f||_p$
In https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~odonnell/papers/analysis-survey.pdf it is stated that the dual of the hypercontractive inequality is equivalent to the following:
If $f$ has degree at most $d$, then
$||f||_q leq rho ^ d ||f||_p$
I am unable to show this (Specifically, the direction that the original version implies the dual version), and would like to help.
Attempt-
We know for every $g$, $||T_rho(g)||_q leq ||g||_p$
Plugging $g = T_frac1rho(f)$,
$||f||_q leq ||T_frac1rho(f)||_p$
Now if $p=2$ it's clear how to finish since it's clear how $T_frac1rho$(f) affect the fourier coefficients, and it's clear how the fourier coefficients relate to the $l_2$ norm. However for $pneq 2$, it's not clear to me how to show $||T_frac1rho(f)||_p leq frac1rho ^d ||f||_p$, or even relate the norms.
I will note the proof that the dual implies us works well here (I can provide more detalis if needed, but I don't think it will help).
co.combinatorics boolean-functions
co.combinatorics boolean-functions
asked Oct 14 at 13:26
AndyAndy
1657 bronze badges
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1 Answer
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I'm not sure that the statement you want is known to hold in full generality (if you look at O'Donnell's website, he remarks that what he stated in that survey is not in fact known to be true in full generality). That said, it does hold for $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$. Let's suppose the Hypercontractivity Theorem holds as you have stated, i.e. for $qgeq pgeq 1$, suppose for $rho=sqrtfracp-1q-1$, we have
beginequation
|T_rhof|_qleq |f|_p.
endequation
To use this statement to get this revised version (or almost, you forgot to take the reciprocal of $rho$), suppose $qgeq 2$ and first take $p=2$, so $rho^-1=sqrtq-1$. As you seem to have figured out, hypercontractivity gives
beginalign
|f|_q^2&=|T_rhoT_rho^-1f|_q^2\
&leq |T_rho^-1f|_2^2\
&=sum_k=0^d rho^-2kW_k(f)\
&leq rho^-2dsum_k=0^dW_k(f)\
&=rho^-2d|f|_2^2\
&=sqrtq-1^2d |f|_2^2,
endalign
where $W_k(f)$ is the level-k Fourier weight of $f$, and we use Parseval and the degree assumption. Taking squareroots yields $|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d|f|_2$ in this simple case.
We also have for $1leq pleq 2$
beginalign
|f|_2^2&=langle f,frangle\
&leq |f|_p|f|_p/(p-1)\
&leq |f|_psqrtp/(p-1)-1^d |f|_2\
&=sqrtfrac1p-1^d|f|_p|f|_2,
endalign
where we use Holder's inequality and then the case we just proved with $q=p'=p/(p-1)$. Putting this together with the previous case, we conclude for all $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$, that
beginequation
|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d |f|_2leq sqrtfracq-1p-1^d |f|_p,
endequation
as claimed.
According to O'Donnell's website, this paper gives the state of the art on this problem (though I haven't looked through it).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks, I didn't look at the website. I liked your 'duality' solution, seems like I can use whenever I prove something for q>2 to deduce about p<2. Interestingly I can't even find a argument that doesn't use this duality (where the q>2 is done directly from the fourier expression), do you have one?
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 14 at 21:32
1
$begingroup$
@Andy Thanks! No, this is the only argument that I know, though a quick scan of the paper seems like it does this without duality (i.e. going through $p=2$) with a neat argument (Theorem 1 shows the heat operator from $L^q$ to itself isn't too big a contraction using a nice averaging argument, and then uses Hypercontractivity as you quoted to get the $L^q$ to $L^p$ result in Corollary 2). Also, what I wrote isn't really my solution, it's essentially from Chapter 9 of O'Donnell's book and the exercises there. I'm not sure where the argument originally comes from.
$endgroup$
– J.G
Oct 15 at 16:11
$begingroup$
hang on, it's actually silly, there's no need for duality. $|T_rho f|_2| geq rho^d ||f|||_2$. I wonder if there are examples where the duality is really essential.
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 15 at 20:34
add a comment
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$
I'm not sure that the statement you want is known to hold in full generality (if you look at O'Donnell's website, he remarks that what he stated in that survey is not in fact known to be true in full generality). That said, it does hold for $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$. Let's suppose the Hypercontractivity Theorem holds as you have stated, i.e. for $qgeq pgeq 1$, suppose for $rho=sqrtfracp-1q-1$, we have
beginequation
|T_rhof|_qleq |f|_p.
endequation
To use this statement to get this revised version (or almost, you forgot to take the reciprocal of $rho$), suppose $qgeq 2$ and first take $p=2$, so $rho^-1=sqrtq-1$. As you seem to have figured out, hypercontractivity gives
beginalign
|f|_q^2&=|T_rhoT_rho^-1f|_q^2\
&leq |T_rho^-1f|_2^2\
&=sum_k=0^d rho^-2kW_k(f)\
&leq rho^-2dsum_k=0^dW_k(f)\
&=rho^-2d|f|_2^2\
&=sqrtq-1^2d |f|_2^2,
endalign
where $W_k(f)$ is the level-k Fourier weight of $f$, and we use Parseval and the degree assumption. Taking squareroots yields $|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d|f|_2$ in this simple case.
We also have for $1leq pleq 2$
beginalign
|f|_2^2&=langle f,frangle\
&leq |f|_p|f|_p/(p-1)\
&leq |f|_psqrtp/(p-1)-1^d |f|_2\
&=sqrtfrac1p-1^d|f|_p|f|_2,
endalign
where we use Holder's inequality and then the case we just proved with $q=p'=p/(p-1)$. Putting this together with the previous case, we conclude for all $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$, that
beginequation
|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d |f|_2leq sqrtfracq-1p-1^d |f|_p,
endequation
as claimed.
According to O'Donnell's website, this paper gives the state of the art on this problem (though I haven't looked through it).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks, I didn't look at the website. I liked your 'duality' solution, seems like I can use whenever I prove something for q>2 to deduce about p<2. Interestingly I can't even find a argument that doesn't use this duality (where the q>2 is done directly from the fourier expression), do you have one?
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 14 at 21:32
1
$begingroup$
@Andy Thanks! No, this is the only argument that I know, though a quick scan of the paper seems like it does this without duality (i.e. going through $p=2$) with a neat argument (Theorem 1 shows the heat operator from $L^q$ to itself isn't too big a contraction using a nice averaging argument, and then uses Hypercontractivity as you quoted to get the $L^q$ to $L^p$ result in Corollary 2). Also, what I wrote isn't really my solution, it's essentially from Chapter 9 of O'Donnell's book and the exercises there. I'm not sure where the argument originally comes from.
$endgroup$
– J.G
Oct 15 at 16:11
$begingroup$
hang on, it's actually silly, there's no need for duality. $|T_rho f|_2| geq rho^d ||f|||_2$. I wonder if there are examples where the duality is really essential.
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 15 at 20:34
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I'm not sure that the statement you want is known to hold in full generality (if you look at O'Donnell's website, he remarks that what he stated in that survey is not in fact known to be true in full generality). That said, it does hold for $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$. Let's suppose the Hypercontractivity Theorem holds as you have stated, i.e. for $qgeq pgeq 1$, suppose for $rho=sqrtfracp-1q-1$, we have
beginequation
|T_rhof|_qleq |f|_p.
endequation
To use this statement to get this revised version (or almost, you forgot to take the reciprocal of $rho$), suppose $qgeq 2$ and first take $p=2$, so $rho^-1=sqrtq-1$. As you seem to have figured out, hypercontractivity gives
beginalign
|f|_q^2&=|T_rhoT_rho^-1f|_q^2\
&leq |T_rho^-1f|_2^2\
&=sum_k=0^d rho^-2kW_k(f)\
&leq rho^-2dsum_k=0^dW_k(f)\
&=rho^-2d|f|_2^2\
&=sqrtq-1^2d |f|_2^2,
endalign
where $W_k(f)$ is the level-k Fourier weight of $f$, and we use Parseval and the degree assumption. Taking squareroots yields $|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d|f|_2$ in this simple case.
We also have for $1leq pleq 2$
beginalign
|f|_2^2&=langle f,frangle\
&leq |f|_p|f|_p/(p-1)\
&leq |f|_psqrtp/(p-1)-1^d |f|_2\
&=sqrtfrac1p-1^d|f|_p|f|_2,
endalign
where we use Holder's inequality and then the case we just proved with $q=p'=p/(p-1)$. Putting this together with the previous case, we conclude for all $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$, that
beginequation
|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d |f|_2leq sqrtfracq-1p-1^d |f|_p,
endequation
as claimed.
According to O'Donnell's website, this paper gives the state of the art on this problem (though I haven't looked through it).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks, I didn't look at the website. I liked your 'duality' solution, seems like I can use whenever I prove something for q>2 to deduce about p<2. Interestingly I can't even find a argument that doesn't use this duality (where the q>2 is done directly from the fourier expression), do you have one?
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 14 at 21:32
1
$begingroup$
@Andy Thanks! No, this is the only argument that I know, though a quick scan of the paper seems like it does this without duality (i.e. going through $p=2$) with a neat argument (Theorem 1 shows the heat operator from $L^q$ to itself isn't too big a contraction using a nice averaging argument, and then uses Hypercontractivity as you quoted to get the $L^q$ to $L^p$ result in Corollary 2). Also, what I wrote isn't really my solution, it's essentially from Chapter 9 of O'Donnell's book and the exercises there. I'm not sure where the argument originally comes from.
$endgroup$
– J.G
Oct 15 at 16:11
$begingroup$
hang on, it's actually silly, there's no need for duality. $|T_rho f|_2| geq rho^d ||f|||_2$. I wonder if there are examples where the duality is really essential.
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 15 at 20:34
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I'm not sure that the statement you want is known to hold in full generality (if you look at O'Donnell's website, he remarks that what he stated in that survey is not in fact known to be true in full generality). That said, it does hold for $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$. Let's suppose the Hypercontractivity Theorem holds as you have stated, i.e. for $qgeq pgeq 1$, suppose for $rho=sqrtfracp-1q-1$, we have
beginequation
|T_rhof|_qleq |f|_p.
endequation
To use this statement to get this revised version (or almost, you forgot to take the reciprocal of $rho$), suppose $qgeq 2$ and first take $p=2$, so $rho^-1=sqrtq-1$. As you seem to have figured out, hypercontractivity gives
beginalign
|f|_q^2&=|T_rhoT_rho^-1f|_q^2\
&leq |T_rho^-1f|_2^2\
&=sum_k=0^d rho^-2kW_k(f)\
&leq rho^-2dsum_k=0^dW_k(f)\
&=rho^-2d|f|_2^2\
&=sqrtq-1^2d |f|_2^2,
endalign
where $W_k(f)$ is the level-k Fourier weight of $f$, and we use Parseval and the degree assumption. Taking squareroots yields $|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d|f|_2$ in this simple case.
We also have for $1leq pleq 2$
beginalign
|f|_2^2&=langle f,frangle\
&leq |f|_p|f|_p/(p-1)\
&leq |f|_psqrtp/(p-1)-1^d |f|_2\
&=sqrtfrac1p-1^d|f|_p|f|_2,
endalign
where we use Holder's inequality and then the case we just proved with $q=p'=p/(p-1)$. Putting this together with the previous case, we conclude for all $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$, that
beginequation
|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d |f|_2leq sqrtfracq-1p-1^d |f|_p,
endequation
as claimed.
According to O'Donnell's website, this paper gives the state of the art on this problem (though I haven't looked through it).
$endgroup$
I'm not sure that the statement you want is known to hold in full generality (if you look at O'Donnell's website, he remarks that what he stated in that survey is not in fact known to be true in full generality). That said, it does hold for $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$. Let's suppose the Hypercontractivity Theorem holds as you have stated, i.e. for $qgeq pgeq 1$, suppose for $rho=sqrtfracp-1q-1$, we have
beginequation
|T_rhof|_qleq |f|_p.
endequation
To use this statement to get this revised version (or almost, you forgot to take the reciprocal of $rho$), suppose $qgeq 2$ and first take $p=2$, so $rho^-1=sqrtq-1$. As you seem to have figured out, hypercontractivity gives
beginalign
|f|_q^2&=|T_rhoT_rho^-1f|_q^2\
&leq |T_rho^-1f|_2^2\
&=sum_k=0^d rho^-2kW_k(f)\
&leq rho^-2dsum_k=0^dW_k(f)\
&=rho^-2d|f|_2^2\
&=sqrtq-1^2d |f|_2^2,
endalign
where $W_k(f)$ is the level-k Fourier weight of $f$, and we use Parseval and the degree assumption. Taking squareroots yields $|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d|f|_2$ in this simple case.
We also have for $1leq pleq 2$
beginalign
|f|_2^2&=langle f,frangle\
&leq |f|_p|f|_p/(p-1)\
&leq |f|_psqrtp/(p-1)-1^d |f|_2\
&=sqrtfrac1p-1^d|f|_p|f|_2,
endalign
where we use Holder's inequality and then the case we just proved with $q=p'=p/(p-1)$. Putting this together with the previous case, we conclude for all $qgeq 2geq pgeq 1$, that
beginequation
|f|_qleq sqrtq-1^d |f|_2leq sqrtfracq-1p-1^d |f|_p,
endequation
as claimed.
According to O'Donnell's website, this paper gives the state of the art on this problem (though I haven't looked through it).
answered Oct 14 at 17:44
J.GJ.G
3311 silver badge3 bronze badges
3311 silver badge3 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Thanks, I didn't look at the website. I liked your 'duality' solution, seems like I can use whenever I prove something for q>2 to deduce about p<2. Interestingly I can't even find a argument that doesn't use this duality (where the q>2 is done directly from the fourier expression), do you have one?
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 14 at 21:32
1
$begingroup$
@Andy Thanks! No, this is the only argument that I know, though a quick scan of the paper seems like it does this without duality (i.e. going through $p=2$) with a neat argument (Theorem 1 shows the heat operator from $L^q$ to itself isn't too big a contraction using a nice averaging argument, and then uses Hypercontractivity as you quoted to get the $L^q$ to $L^p$ result in Corollary 2). Also, what I wrote isn't really my solution, it's essentially from Chapter 9 of O'Donnell's book and the exercises there. I'm not sure where the argument originally comes from.
$endgroup$
– J.G
Oct 15 at 16:11
$begingroup$
hang on, it's actually silly, there's no need for duality. $|T_rho f|_2| geq rho^d ||f|||_2$. I wonder if there are examples where the duality is really essential.
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 15 at 20:34
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Thanks, I didn't look at the website. I liked your 'duality' solution, seems like I can use whenever I prove something for q>2 to deduce about p<2. Interestingly I can't even find a argument that doesn't use this duality (where the q>2 is done directly from the fourier expression), do you have one?
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 14 at 21:32
1
$begingroup$
@Andy Thanks! No, this is the only argument that I know, though a quick scan of the paper seems like it does this without duality (i.e. going through $p=2$) with a neat argument (Theorem 1 shows the heat operator from $L^q$ to itself isn't too big a contraction using a nice averaging argument, and then uses Hypercontractivity as you quoted to get the $L^q$ to $L^p$ result in Corollary 2). Also, what I wrote isn't really my solution, it's essentially from Chapter 9 of O'Donnell's book and the exercises there. I'm not sure where the argument originally comes from.
$endgroup$
– J.G
Oct 15 at 16:11
$begingroup$
hang on, it's actually silly, there's no need for duality. $|T_rho f|_2| geq rho^d ||f|||_2$. I wonder if there are examples where the duality is really essential.
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 15 at 20:34
$begingroup$
Thanks, I didn't look at the website. I liked your 'duality' solution, seems like I can use whenever I prove something for q>2 to deduce about p<2. Interestingly I can't even find a argument that doesn't use this duality (where the q>2 is done directly from the fourier expression), do you have one?
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 14 at 21:32
$begingroup$
Thanks, I didn't look at the website. I liked your 'duality' solution, seems like I can use whenever I prove something for q>2 to deduce about p<2. Interestingly I can't even find a argument that doesn't use this duality (where the q>2 is done directly from the fourier expression), do you have one?
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 14 at 21:32
1
1
$begingroup$
@Andy Thanks! No, this is the only argument that I know, though a quick scan of the paper seems like it does this without duality (i.e. going through $p=2$) with a neat argument (Theorem 1 shows the heat operator from $L^q$ to itself isn't too big a contraction using a nice averaging argument, and then uses Hypercontractivity as you quoted to get the $L^q$ to $L^p$ result in Corollary 2). Also, what I wrote isn't really my solution, it's essentially from Chapter 9 of O'Donnell's book and the exercises there. I'm not sure where the argument originally comes from.
$endgroup$
– J.G
Oct 15 at 16:11
$begingroup$
@Andy Thanks! No, this is the only argument that I know, though a quick scan of the paper seems like it does this without duality (i.e. going through $p=2$) with a neat argument (Theorem 1 shows the heat operator from $L^q$ to itself isn't too big a contraction using a nice averaging argument, and then uses Hypercontractivity as you quoted to get the $L^q$ to $L^p$ result in Corollary 2). Also, what I wrote isn't really my solution, it's essentially from Chapter 9 of O'Donnell's book and the exercises there. I'm not sure where the argument originally comes from.
$endgroup$
– J.G
Oct 15 at 16:11
$begingroup$
hang on, it's actually silly, there's no need for duality. $|T_rho f|_2| geq rho^d ||f|||_2$. I wonder if there are examples where the duality is really essential.
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 15 at 20:34
$begingroup$
hang on, it's actually silly, there's no need for duality. $|T_rho f|_2| geq rho^d ||f|||_2$. I wonder if there are examples where the duality is really essential.
$endgroup$
– Andy
Oct 15 at 20:34
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