Was “чёрствый” ever a synonym for fresh in Russian?Was “сладкий” ever synonymous with “пресный” in RussianComprehensibility of “Sub-Standard” Speech?A problematic etymology of a 'three-letter' Russian profanity“Скатертью дорога” - was it ever a positive thing after all?Why do Russians call their women expensive (“дорогая”)?What is the original Russian word for a watermelon?Why was the Russian letter X called “хѣръ”?What are some examples of special things about Russian?Was “Novgorod” in 1815 one city or the other?
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Was “чёрствый” ever a synonym for fresh in Russian?
Was “сладкий” ever synonymous with “пресный” in RussianComprehensibility of “Sub-Standard” Speech?A problematic etymology of a 'three-letter' Russian profanity“Скатертью дорога” - was it ever a positive thing after all?Why do Russians call their women expensive (“дорогая”)?What is the original Russian word for a watermelon?Why was the Russian letter X called “хѣръ”?What are some examples of special things about Russian?Was “Novgorod” in 1815 one city or the other?
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In Russian, черствый хлеб is stale bread. And to my great surprise, I recently learned that in Czech, čerstvý chléb is precisely the opposite thing: fresh bread.
The question is: has "чёрствый" ever meant something else in Russian other than stale?
этимология история-языка other-languages slavic
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
|
show 4 more comments
In Russian, черствый хлеб is stale bread. And to my great surprise, I recently learned that in Czech, čerstvý chléb is precisely the opposite thing: fresh bread.
The question is: has "чёрствый" ever meant something else in Russian other than stale?
этимология история-языка other-languages slavic
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
– tum_
6 hours ago
And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
– tum_
6 hours ago
It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
1
Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
@shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
– tum_
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
In Russian, черствый хлеб is stale bread. And to my great surprise, I recently learned that in Czech, čerstvý chléb is precisely the opposite thing: fresh bread.
The question is: has "чёрствый" ever meant something else in Russian other than stale?
этимология история-языка other-languages slavic
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
In Russian, черствый хлеб is stale bread. And to my great surprise, I recently learned that in Czech, čerstvý chléb is precisely the opposite thing: fresh bread.
The question is: has "чёрствый" ever meant something else in Russian other than stale?
этимология история-языка other-languages slavic
этимология история-языка other-languages slavic
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
edited 3 hours ago
shabunc♦
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
25.6k4 gold badges62 silver badges112 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
3,1911 gold badge14 silver badges49 bronze badges
It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
– tum_
6 hours ago
And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
– tum_
6 hours ago
It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
1
Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
@shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
– tum_
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
– tum_
6 hours ago
And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
– tum_
6 hours ago
It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
1
Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
@shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
– tum_
4 hours ago
It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
– tum_
6 hours ago
It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
– tum_
6 hours ago
And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
– tum_
6 hours ago
And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
– tum_
6 hours ago
It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
1
1
Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
@shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
– tum_
4 hours ago
@shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
– tum_
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.
There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
– Yellow Sky
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".
It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
add a comment
|
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
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votes
active
oldest
votes
Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.
There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
– Yellow Sky
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.
There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
– Yellow Sky
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.
There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.
There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
9,16213 silver badges27 bronze badges
It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
– Yellow Sky
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
– Yellow Sky
2 hours ago
It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
– Yellow Sky
2 hours ago
It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
– Yellow Sky
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".
It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
add a comment
|
The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".
It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
add a comment
|
The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".
It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".
It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Quassnoi♦Quassnoi
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
35.2k2 gold badges58 silver badges134 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
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It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
– tum_
6 hours ago
And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
– tum_
6 hours ago
It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
1
Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
– shabunc♦
4 hours ago
@shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
– tum_
4 hours ago